Billbergia

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Rainer K
Beiträge: 45
Registriert: Dienstag, 8 Juni 2004, 17:47
Wohnort: Hannover-Linden

Billbergia

Beitrag von Rainer K »

Hallo,
ich habe vor ein paar Monaten in einem Info-Pavillon der Herrenhäuser Gärten eine Billbergia erstanden. Sie sieht, soweit man das ohne Blüte sagen kann, wie eine Billbergia kuhlmannii aus. Gestern sah ich diese Pflanze im Schauhaus des Berggartens. Auf dem Schild steht Billbergia chiapursis. Ich nehme an, daß damit Billbergia chiapensis gemeint ist. Hat jemand einen Tip, wo ich ein Foto von Billbergia chiapensis finde?

Vielen Dank im Voraus und Gruß
Rainer
Rainer K
Beiträge: 45
Registriert: Dienstag, 8 Juni 2004, 17:47
Wohnort: Hannover-Linden

Beitrag von Rainer K »

Hallo,
ich habe in allen mir bekannten Suchmaschinen gesucht. Anscheinend gibt es online wirklich kein Foto von Billbergia chiapensis. Herausgefunden habe ich nur, daß Billbergia chiapensis manchmal mit Billbergia pallidiflora verwechselt wird und Billbergia kuhlmannii mit Billbergia brasiliensis. Langsam wird es spannend. Ich hoffe, daß meine Pflanze einmal blühen wird, oder die Pflanzen im Berggarten.
Falls jemand Interesse an dieser Pflanze hat, kann ich Fotos per e-mail senden, auch eine Pflanze, die ich übrig habe, per Post.
Gruß
Rainer
Timm Stolten
Webmaster
Beiträge: 1690
Registriert: Sonntag, 28 März 2004, 10:49
Wohnort: Hamburg

Beitrag von Timm Stolten »

Hi Rainer, habe gestern selber mal gegoogelt und nix gefunden.
Leider kenne ich die Art nicht, kann Dir daher nicht weiterhelfen.
Aber wenn Du gute Bilder hast, schick sie doch mal an Dr. Till.

Gruß Timm
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Rainer K
Beiträge: 45
Registriert: Dienstag, 8 Juni 2004, 17:47
Wohnort: Hannover-Linden

Beitrag von Rainer K »

Hallo,
heute versuche ich einmal Fotos von der Billbergia einzustellen, die im Berggarten in Hannover Billbergia chiapensis genannt wird.

Bild Bild


Bild Bild


Bild Bild


Bild Bild

Ist es Billbergia chiapensis? Oder vielleicht Billbergia kuhlmannii oder Billbergia brasiliensis?

Vielen Dank im Voraus und Gruß
Rainer
Jan Claus
Beiträge: 73
Registriert: Freitag, 13 November 2009, 16:09

Beitrag von Jan Claus »

Es handelt sich bei der abgebildeten Pflanze um Billbergia kuhlmannii.

Mit freundlichen Grüßen

Jan Claus
noid
Beiträge: 2
Registriert: Dienstag, 13 Oktober 2009, 10:01

Beitrag von noid »

Woran erkennt man den Unterschied zwischen brasiliensis und kuhlmannii?

Danke.
Benutzeravatar
gonzer
Beiträge: 118
Registriert: Donnerstag, 4 Mai 2006, 1:26

Beitrag von gonzer »

With acknowledgement to Margaret and Derek Butcher.




'Auntie Margaret Queries'
Billbergia brasiliensis

Margaret Butcher Please think Billbergia brasiliensis if your Billbergia has blue coiled up petals. just read on for details of what has happened over the years.
Have you ever been bothered by a problem that keeps coming back and just nags and nags? Well, here is one which has been partly laid to rest or fully laid to rest if you change your labels.

It all started in the 1970's when us South Aussies got a plant from Victoria called Billbergia kuhlmannii and in those days we believed everything the Victorians said. It was a pretty plant with few leaves, broad white banded and forming a tight tube. It had blue flowers which mostly coiled up like a watchspring. It easily set seed and the seed pod was always 3 sided (trigonous) with many irregular longitudinal grooves (sulcate).

A similar looking plant arrived from Queensland under the name of Billbergia venezuelana and another from N.S.W. as Billbergia brasiliensis. We were swamped with names! In 1980 in the U.S. Society seed bank, there appeared Billbergia exotica. Was this a hybrid with such a fancy name? It was listed in the 1979 International Checklist of Bromeliad Hybrids with no mention of parentage. In the latest "Beadle" listing, we have B. 'Exotica' as a name given by Kent to a possible Billbergia vittata cultivar. (this is confirmed in the Bromeliad Cultivar Registry 1998 but the description is so vague it could well be describing Billbergia brasiliensis.). All the plants that grew up under our tender care seemed to be exactly the same as our blue flowered Billbergia kuhlmannii. In March, 1984 the U.S. Society seed bank offered Billbergia alfonsi-joannis which four years later under our tender care produced a blue flowered - yes, you've guessed it!

By this time we were becoming desperate and we just had to confide in Bill Morris.(A BSI trustee) The only plant that tallied according to our interpretation was yet another name - Billbergia velascana. This was the only one with blue flowers and a grooved trigonous seed pod. Bill did calm us down (or did it just to shut us up) by asking us if the ovaries on page 2033 of Flora Neotropica were from flowers just opened, post floral, or full of seed. How were we to know? Secondly what were the chances of South Australia having a rare Billbergia velascana from Bolivia against the more common Billbergia brasiliensis which comes from the same area (near Rio de Janeiro) that many of the first Bromeliad imports to Australia came from. This didn't seem very scientific to us especially when Smith's writings had suggested the likelihood that Billbergia brasiliensis was a hybrid. If he meant an F1 hybrid then seedlings from this should bear the same relationship to either of the original parents (viz. the grandparents). However, our experience showed that self pollination produced regularity in progeny. So we forgot about the problem!

At a South Australian Society meeting in November, a member came up with plant in hand and wanted to know its name. Yes, it was our blue flowered Billbergia and I quietly went to a corner to bang my head there.

'WRITE TO LUTHER' kept drumming in my head. So we sent a slide, but even from that meagre picking Harry was fairly sure we had Billbergia brasiliensis. We now know that the ovary becomes sulcate as it matures, and that the lower ovaries can be trigonous before and at flowering. Neither of these facts are on page 2007 of Flora Neotropica.

By the way, Billbergia velascana has gone by the wayside because it has pale yellow-blue petals in their 'live' state and Billbergia kuhlmannii has a tubular ovary and is so rare that it is not even in the Marie Selby collection.

So if you have a Billbergia with few, white-banded stiff leaves, a blue flower which invariably winds up like a watchspring, and a three sided sulcate ovary which becomes almost globular when ripe, then you have Billbergia brasiliensis.

Auntie Margaret




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noid
Beiträge: 2
Registriert: Dienstag, 13 Oktober 2009, 10:01

Beitrag von noid »

Thank you Gonzer.

I did read the comment on differences in the ovaries under the alleged kuhlmannii picture on fcbs.org but I indeed missed the Uncle Derek article and I thank you very for much sharing it. The comment already aroused my curiosity as to what this above plant really is.

The difference appears to be so minimal that I bet only the owner of these plants would be able to determine what he has and based on the posted picture my untrained eyes would not be able to make that call. I did have to look up what sulcate means but I guess it is the shape, tubular or triangular, what counts.

Anyway, based on the said availability it is highly probable that this is a brasiliensis rather than a kuhlmannii.

Best and thanks again.
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